Speaker: 00:00:00

Dr. Jean Oursler: The most successful lawyers that I've seen are the ones that realize that they're running a business in the area of law. And most lawyers don't think that way. And most lawyers have never gone to school to learn how to be an entrepreneur, but all of them are like, I hated working in the big, firm. I was giving them so many business hours, and I decided to own my own company. Great. I'm glad that you started open up your own firm. That's awesome. What do you do in a run a better firm? How do you learn and how to do that?

IMFLF Intro: 00:00:34

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:00:56

Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time you're listening to this podcast. Welcome. And thanks for joining us on The 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. We've got a great guest today. Dr. Jean the results queen? Could you beat that? Dr. Jean Oursler. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules podcast.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:01:17

Dr. Jean Oursler: Oh my god, do you actually pronounce my name correctly? Thank you so much for having me. And I'm so looking forward to this conversation.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:01:23

So we're going to cover a lot of great stuff today. Dr. Jean has a company called caveman brain. And I was telling her, I used to play these guys who played caveman tennis. And she's gonna tell us why tennis has great lessons for running a company. And she's she's got some awesome strategies for law firms to do better sales, better conversions, more sales, more revenue, a 30%. Increase is like standard 60% is often an awesome. But we're also going to spend a lot of time talking about E. O 's, the Entrepreneurial Operating System. We've talked a lot about it. And I absolutely love it. If you haven't read the book, traction, don't go read this book, get a grip, because chances are, if you are an entrepreneurial attorney, the grips a little easier for you. The mistake I read that was made is I read track. I tried to read track, but that's really written for the integrator, but we're gonna get into all that when we get into it. So Dr. Jean, welcome. Tell us a little bit about your background. And, and, you know, get us to present day.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:02:28

Dr. Jean Oursler: I'm happy to do that. But I also got to make the suggestion read what the heck is EOS is actually even easier than get a grip. So there you go. Yeah. So I love that Jay runs on EOS. And I know that he has so much more successful because of that, because of the conversations we had. So how did I get to where I am today. So I'm going to start a little farther back than most people do. But I went to college because I wanted to do something and I wanted to be a theatre arts management major. So I was a theater major. I wasn't an actress, I was a man, I was taking a business degree in theater. And I look at everything as from running a show is so much like running a company. And all of the lessons that I learned as a stage manager and has absolutely helped me where I am today. So fast forward, I decided when I got out of college, I didn't want to be a theater person, because you get laid off a lot. So I just had to go into advertising. And I started Ogilvy. And I worked my way through pretty much every category except liquor and cars, because I was bored. And of course, at the time I was a Job Hopper. But now you're, you're about getting experience. And from there, I landed in a family owned business that was basically around pharmaceutical marketing. And I created my own job, because there was a need to become, they needed an HR person. And I saw this need. And I went to the President and gave him a 50 page presentation deck with a return on investment on each page, because his sister in law was running HR. And he said, I'll give you a six months chain. And if you like it, you'll stay in. If not you go back in to account management. I said, Okay, that's great. And once I got the job, I thought, oh my god, I now need to get I actually need to do this. So I got a master's degree in organization development, and did pretty much everything you can imagine in HR except for compensation and benefits. I don't know how to do that. And then I got pregnant. And I always say like, how did that happen? And then there's like a person B's conversation, because I'm not really sure how that happened. It was not my intention. And a year later, I started my company. And I was a mompreneur when and when that work didn't even exist. And now my daughter is 25 years old. So I've been in business for 24 years as a consultant. And at the time it was you're in between jobs. So it's been a long time that I'm in between jobs as a consultant. I run every type of business that you can imagine I'm a serial entrepreneur and I've loved every moment of it. And now I run a virtual organization called caveman brain business growth system. And we are really your one stop shop for consulting, operations, sales, marketing, finance, and we love working with lawyers. We think that they're the best. And if I can get every lawyer to run on Eos, every one is going to the world will be so much better for lawyers. So that's how my journey of today

Jay Berkowitz: 00:05:11

spent, you know, two more minutes, I know we're gonna get into us, and we're gonna go deep. You know, what are some of the basic building blocks of the caveman brain process? Like, what's a good example of an attorney who should call you? They need XYZ help?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:05:28

Dr. Jean Oursler: So we started out, interestingly enough, when how I got to lawyers, I'll just do that my daughter was a competitive equestrian notice everything's about my kid, because family first and really important about that. But she was a competitive question. And she suffered a major concussion, the first month of her freshman year in high school. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, well, she's much better now that I mean, she went to Berkeley, and she's doing great. I'm very happy about that. But at the time, yeah, she definitely recovered. But it was a definite, it was really a traumatic thing for the family. And what I did was at the time, I was traveling across the country, I was like a mini McKinsey. And I literally shut that business down overnight, gave some kind of con gave my contracts to my consultants, to just a handful of clients and restarted my business from my house, being online, because I couldn't travel because of my of my daughter. And after a couple months, we did the analysis. And we found that most of the people were coming to us were either women, or lawyers, accountants and financial advisors. And they were coming to us for new business development. So we started so that's how caveman brain started was, we were teaching lawyers how to be better at new business development, because none of them want to be ambulance chasers. And they all knew that they need to do new business development, but they don't know how, and no one teaches them. And it's very awkward. So when we and I, and what's really fascinating is, I'm not a lawyer. But the fact is, I'm probably better lawyer than most because I spent so much time hanging out with lawyers. So then I thought to myself, well, I'm going to hang out with lawyers, I better get a good credential. So I decided to go back and get a PhD in business psychology. And I became Dr. Jean, the results queen and pure, like why are you the results queen? Well, my clients crown me the results queen, because I'm all about getting a result. What are you looking for? So the fact is, is that it started out with the fact that lawyers are not good at new business development. And once we started working with lawyers and realized because they're super smart, and they all have the same skills, they know how to ask questions. And that's what you do in new business development, you ask questions, and you just have to change your head from being lawyer to marketing. And once you do that, you'll be amazed at what you achieve, and this billable hours and how do you handle all that you don't need a lot of time, five hours is all you need. That's what our lawyers tell us five hours and you'll get a 30% increase. Whether you're a partner or you want to be a partner, doesn't matter. That's where it starts is new business development.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:07:48

You mentioned the ambulance chaser and the billable hours. And I think you know, I understand more that a business coach, a sales coach is is a real good fit for the billable hours, because you've got clients, if you can get them to do more, it really fits the billable hours model. But you mentioned the ambulance chaser term we don't all love but you know, personal injury lawyers. What what, you know if you could give us three good building blocks for how to improve your sales as a personal injury attorney? Well,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:08:20

Dr. Jean Oursler: yeah, so the first thing is that I'm actually good before, okay, because we have a really, yeah, we have a four or a four phase process. It's a circle. Its alignment, accountability, expansion. And brain junk is what we call it, you can enter their circle anywhere. As long as you learn those four things, you will continuously go through those four things. So the first thing you need to do is you need to know your target audience like your adversary. You know everything about your adversary, and you know everything about that case, well, do you know everything about your target audience? Can you spot them a mile away, because once you know everything about your ideal target audience ideal, and the best way to do that is to take the person you love the most right now or the person you've worked with, that you love the most. And describe that person as an avatar. And when I came out of advertising, I worked it all the way we worked on Skippy peanut butter. Who is Skippy, right? Describe Skippy Is it a man a woman, what car do they drive? What's their favorite hobbies? What's their pain point? What's their frustrations? Why would they need you what value do you bring them? What kind of results have you gotten with your other clients that they would think that's really awesome. So alignment is super important.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:09:31

So what's what's an example for a pie attorney? Avatar? Well, it

Jay Berkowitz: 00:09:36

Dr. Jean Oursler: depends on what kind of pie attorney you are. Right? So because personal injury is a lot of different things. So if you're an accident person, like so think about. So think about you have gotten into a car accident, right? And how many and this is really interesting for PIs. How many car accident clients do you have? That doesn't like What's your type of products? cuz in terms of lawyers, we're giving lots of services. But like, we look at it as product, so like, what services you're giving? And what service do you give the most of? And which one do you enjoy the most? Because they may not be the same thing. So once you figure that out, then you look at who's the best client that you had. So you might have been like the mom whose kid got into a car accident, well, then the fact is, is that the kid is not calling you, the mom is calling you. So the mom would be your best avatar. And you got to explain, like, why is the mom calling you? Well, she's so nervous. Like, if she's a high powered mom, she's so nervous about the kid getting in trouble in terms of like going to jail, ruining his life or her life, but I'm going to pick away because they mostly get into car accidents, you know, like, they're, they've been injured in a way that they will let this wolf affect the rest of their life, that they're never going to be successful. So think about that. And then playing on those fears, no offense, instead would love to those power moms, but playing on those fears, because that's the thing, if you can solve those fears, like, look, I'm going to hold your hand through this whole process, your kid is going to be perfectly fine. In fact, we've worked with 15 different types of moms and 15 different types that are just like you, and here's the outcomes that we've gotten. And we can't always get those outcomes, because, you know, nothing is guaranteed in life. But the reality is that this is one of the things that we will do to make sure that everything's gonna be good for your kid. So I just gave you a little avatar, but I also gave you a story. So a witness witnessing story testimonial story. That's not from me, it's from my clients. And lawyers are super smart. They just have to change their hat because that is what they do when they stand in court. It's the same process. So when you do that it's alignment. countability, you got to be able to do this. So schedule five hours in your in your calendar,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:11:42

want to stick with alignment. Okay. gives me two thoughts. Okay. All right. So the first one is, I used to sort of call this a trick question. And I used to ask other experts in marketing for attorneys, like, What's the best thing to put on the homepage of the website, a car accident, a lawyer in court, a lawyer with a big check, a lawyer fighting the insurance company?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:12:08

And the answer is Option five? Well, the answer is that a little bit of what you talked about, which is you've got to pick what you stand for. And, you know, it's fine. Like, if you want to be the lawyer that gets the big check, you can be the big check guys, and stick with that. And that can be in all your marketing and communications. If you want to be the lawyer who is part of the community, that's really good. And actually consumers like to see you and your team on your website. One thing that's probably not perfect, and there are probably spots for it, is you actually don't want to show the lawyer in court. Because a lot of consumers are afraid to go to court. They're like, Oh, my God, I don't I don't want to go to court. I don't have I hope I don't have to go to court, like they're scared to death of going to court. But you know, the moral of the story here is, I love the point, your first point alignment, and a big part of his picking. what you stand for is your firm, picking your brand promise, picking your core, you know, USP unique selling proposition? I also worked in advertising.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:13:10

Dr. Jean Oursler: Yeah, right. Well, that's why you do the marketing for all these lawyers, because you know, what, the digital marketing is really important for them. Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:13:17

again, man, I, I'm funny, I used to work in advertising. I mean, like big agency advertising. I know, I worked on McDonald's and Coca Cola, mechanics and stuff like that. So

Jay Berkowitz: 00:13:28

Dr. Jean Oursler: we can have a whole conversation about that. So love

Jay Berkowitz: 00:13:31

the alignment. The other thing that's really valuable and important, and Dr. Jean, and I will definitely vouch for this, when I picked our niche. So you know, first I picked the niche digital advertising. And then we picked the niche even further of working only with attorneys. And so it's been so much easier for our firm, and so much easier for me, like I know what I do, I know which conference I'm supposed to speak at. I know, it's supposed to interview and what topics we're supposed to cover. And my staff gets really, really, really great at doing digital marketing for attorneys. So a big part of that. And I think part of that alignment, and that message for Dr. Jean is picking your core and, and sticking with it. And everybody's gonna be like, Oh, but you know, we do great in mass torts. And like, do you really, you know, you got like, you know, stick you know, pick, pick that 8020 rule, you get 80% of your revenue from, you know, 20% of your niche and make that your focus your alignment.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:14:33

Dr. Jean Oursler: So here's that 100% And I'm just gonna tell you this, lots of people, you may not have 20% you might have one, they'd pick the one and that person you grow your your practice from the one right and this is the other thing people say to me, there's a great book, older book, riches are in the niches. The more you niche, the more you niche, really niche niche, the more money you'll make,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:14:54

because it's easier that was just like a cliche, saying, but there's a book I didn't realize it was actually But okay, great. So it's good to get three or four. So number one, alignment number two,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:04

Dr. Jean Oursler: accountability, gotta be accountable and five hours a week, that's all you need schedule five hours in your calendar and do it and write what you want to do for new business development. And and we have as you can go to our website, Caveman brain.com. We have our marketing attraction vehicles, which ones do you want to use? Digital marketing is the best, I'm gonna tell you that. And lawyers are terrible at it. So you know, you need to did really, because they don't have time to pick stuff, things you can do. Now,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:29

assume that the marketing piece was separate. But

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:33

Dr. Jean Oursler: But I'm saying, Yeah, marketing pieces separate, but things like your

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:40

new business development. I mean, obvious, obviously, marketing is part of the new business development. Yeah, I assumed you were gonna give us you know, core principles.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:48

Dr. Jean Oursler: Okay. Let me give you some. So like, let's pick networking, because every lawyer thinks they need to network. And they most lawyers say that they get business from other lawyers, with go to go to high value networking, to speaking to high value speaking. Lots of them playing golf, if we have a whole golf webinar, if you're going to go play golf for X amount of hours, however many goals you're playing, make sure that you're bringing something back whenever our top, one of our top successful lawyers, all he does is play golf. And that's how he brings on clients. And every time he plays golf, he brings him a client, because he knows that he's playing X amount of hours, and he better bring home something to his law firm. Swear to god, he's grown his whole practice, just by playing golf.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:16:34

I love that we actually met through a group called Pro advisors. Yeah. And if you're an attorney, and you haven't checked it out, it's about 60 or 70%. Lawyers, great networking forum where you can find those referral partners, and friends and relationships meet amazing people like Dr. Jean, Dr. Jean was number one, alignment, number two, accountability, number three, expansion.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:16:55

Dr. Jean Oursler: So most, most lawyers, when they get really well in alignment, and accountability, they want more. And their law firm starts to say to them, Hey, or if you're one of the partners, you're like, hey, we're really growing the business now. And we want to grow it more. How do we continue to grow it to expansion and then brain junk, or people might call it mind junk or mindset. We call it brain junk as caveman brain. And the gig about the fact is, eventually something's going to change. And it's going to land you in a place that you're like, Wait, this is not working anymore. I mean, it's just on the phone with a partner of a law firm. We work one on one and coaching. And he's like, I don't understand why these clients won't you call me and talk to me and love, love lying. And I was like, Okay, you're in brainchild, let's have a conversation. And once you get through range on, you end up back in alignment, because you've learned something that has changed, economies change, your clients changed, your services changed, something has happened. And that then makes your ideal target client has to you have to update it. That puts you back in alignment. So you have to make sure your stories and your marketing attraction vehicles and your ideal client are alignment, and you go just go through the whole circle again, we have clients with us for I think our lat long as clients 12 years, and they still cycle through the same four.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:18:09

So there you go. So alignment, accountability and expansion, brain junk. But I guess I'm missing the point. So avoid brain junk, or, Oh,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:18:23

Dr. Jean Oursler: no, you're gonna end up in right brain junk. So we were teaching, we were working with a mid sized law firm with their I can't think the name, it's early in the morning, but they were working with not their partners, but people who want to become partners. Why can I think of the name for the moment. And we had a guy who is part of the program, our program is a year long. And there's a reason why it's a year long is because it takes time for you to learn all these things. He spent the whole time in brain junk, because he had been working with a partner who fed him all of his business. And he had never gone out to get any new business. And he and they wanted to make him a partner. But they they had a mandate of you had to bring in two and $50,000 worth of new business before you become a partner. And he just couldn't do it. And he spent the whole year in brain junk. And finally, towards the end, he got it. But he'd spent all the time in brain junk, he couldn't actually get to the fact that he was going to be in alignment because he just was carrying baggage and brain junk comes from four places, your parents, your culture, your childhood and your life experiences. So thinking about like this happens a lot with lawyers. I brought home a science, my science paper, whatever. It wasn't, whatever was subject matter. It was an eye it was a 97. And my dad or mom said where's the other three points? And I'm always working for the other three points. Right? You don't have to work for you those three points. 97 is really good in business if everyone was being a 97 and that's not happening. But there's just like, there's like stuff that you're carrying. That makes you a mind or a grinder when you can really be a finder and Any lawyer can be a finder.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:20:03

I mean, I'm not gonna do just this because I just heard it yesterday from our EOS implementer Gerardo, but he was actually quoting Dan Sullivan. And he said, it's it's a concept called the gap, the gap in the game. Yeah. And when he was explaining this, there's there's the horizon. And it's your B hag. Your big, hairy, audacious goal. I think that's a Tony Robbins term.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:20:26

Dr. Jean Oursler: No, it's Jim Collins, my friend. Yeah.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:20:31

Why don't you explain? I'm gonna I'm gonna make brain junk cutter. No, no, no, you

Jay Berkowitz: 00:20:35

Dr. Jean Oursler: can go. And I Well, the reason why it's because I know Jim Collins, and I love Jim Collins. And so I'm like that Tony didn't say that. I never met Tony. So

Jay Berkowitz: 00:20:42

you said A B hag. audacious goal. Like we have our big, hairy, audacious goal. And we were working on it yesterday, we had our full quarterly EOS day. And what he said is a lot of firms and a lot of people in particularly the visionary get mired in this place where they're always not achieving, and they're always dissatisfied. Yeah. Because you set your goals so high. And even if you achieve your goals, like I think we achieved 95% of our goals this quarter. Great. And of course, yeah, see, and you're great. I'm like, Oh, that's so sucks. Like, why? That's not even winning, like 145% of your goals is winning.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:21:17

Dr. Jean Oursler: Yeah, no, no, no. Playing the

Jay Berkowitz: 00:21:21

gap. You know, what? Why am I living in the gap? And the game? Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:21:24

Dr. Jean Oursler: right. Well, that's because he comes from your childhood, your parents, your culture, life experience. And what's really great about us and caveman brain is that we take all the psychology that we've done in new business development, and we've become EOS implementers. And I'm so excited that you run on EOS because I want every law firm to run on EOS because Oh, go all the way there. We're gonna I'm not gonna go are there, but you know, I'm gonna gap and the game is, is, so many of us live in the gap. And the fact is, is that like 95%, I will tell you, I have clients who only get 50% of their rocks. And the idea about rocks, let's just talk I'm gonna just give me Thursday with rocks or, or goals that you set every 90 days to achieve by the end of the quarter. And an agent projects

Jay Berkowitz: 00:22:12

that you've got to get done in the quarter got a good time, we'll move the needle,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:22:16

Dr. Jean Oursler: right, yeah, to move the needle to be a better organization. And running an organization like running your law firm on a 90 day cycle is, really, it's a great way of moving forward, because it's a short period of time. But it's long enough that you can do a lot of things I've been running for 24 years, I've been running on 90 days. And it's it's amazing.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:22:34

Quarter is great. Like, I'll give you an example of a rock, like, our team sat down, and we brainstorm. And we figured out what we really needed to do. And I was surprised that Tim came to me and said, Jay, you know, our websites really looking a little dated. I'm like, wait a minute, we just did that website. And they're like, really. And then when we thought about it was actually like, like four and a half years. It seems like just yesterday, to me that the team was coming to me, because you know, I always used to do those kind of big projects. And they're like, No, we're gonna get the website done. And it took about four months, but we really got the majority of it done in the quarter. So that's an example of a quarterly goal. The whole team is behind it. Everybody makes sure we get it done. We actually liked the term, the top one of five. And I think that's from Rockefeller habits. Yes. And it's like, so you set your five goals. ELS says you can have between three and

Jay Berkowitz: 00:23:29

Dr. Jean Oursler: seven. But you really can't you have to five because the brain can't have more than five. Yeah, it's three to five.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:23:34

The top one of one, everybody leaves that meeting, committing to no matter what we're gonna move heaven and earth and get the top one at one time. All right, yeah. So so we don't want to live in the gap.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:23:45

Dr. Jean Oursler: So hold on a minute, let me just go back to your 95% because you're like, ah, notice caveman brain. I'm like, right there. Like, Hey, man, thank you so much. I owe you $1 Caveman brain, I only got 95% on. Now, let me ask you this. If every single person who's listening this a set five rocks or five priorities of five goals to get done by the end of the quarter, and they got all five done to move their company to the next level? How amazing would that be? Right? So that's 100%. Imagine if you got 95% of the way there? How amazing would that be? I have clients that get 30% of the way there. And the reason why I'm saying yay for you is because it's not about completion at 145%. It's at completion that 100% of all of your people, a one which isn't challenging in any type of form, but especially a law firm, but to your setting really great walks to set your company up for success because it only can get to 100%. So like yay for you, and good for the fact that you're setting amazing priorities that are doable and achievable for your organization. celebrate that. Thank you most people don't celebrate

Jay Berkowitz: 00:24:58

so so the point is Celebrate, don't leave in the gap of always, you know, we didn't get to look

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:05

Dr. Jean Oursler: at the three points to only get the three points they'll consider it a win and consider it a win and move on. 97% is a really good thing. Not three points is way off track. So

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:15

there's phases to the key. We did that. I want to move into you and we did that accountability expansion to screenshot for real quick and brain junk brain joke is number four. Okay.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:26

Dr. Jean Oursler: Yeah, brain junk is number four. And we just had a whole brain chunk conversation right here in person on life because he was like, 95%

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:35

of brain tuck. No, yeah.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:36

Dr. Jean Oursler: Now you get, and I'm like, really? That's awesome. And he's like, No, it's not. I'm like, really, I think that's caveman brain. And that's what it is. Caveman brain is a noun, it's a verb, it's an adverb, adjective. Because the fact is, when you can identify when it's happening, then you can fix it. And that's what happens is that most people don't really think about, especially from new business development, or even running your firm, you don't really think about the psychological things that are holding you back. And having worked with a Harvard neuroscientist, I realized that there's a lot of psychological things in my caveman brain, which is your amygdala. Since I'm an almond, it's the back of your brain. It's your internal protection says system think fight, flight or freeze. And it's the one that makes up all those stories that prevent us from being more successful. So J just did a great job. Thank you so much J for he's like, I only got to 95%. I think there are people who would kill to get to 95%. And you're like, where's the other 5% doesn't really work that way. Okay, be consistent every quarter and get 95%. And imagine where your organization is going to go with all of your people getting to 95%? That's, by

Jay Berkowitz: 00:26:41

the way, you said that your dad, you know, when you get 97 out of 100. Your dad would say where's the other three? Three points? Yeah, my dad was similar. I was a hockey goalie. And I remember a lot of times in the car on the way home like I could play the game of my life. And we'd went to one I'd let him one, one goal. He'd be talking about what were you doing on that goal? Like your stick was waving where you're waving at me in the ground? Like, yeah, I spent like 49 saves, and we want to? Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:27:09

Dr. Jean Oursler: well, that's the challenge is that caveman brain is negative. And it always is going to look at the negative the gap, right? But the reality is, and we can change caveman brain, and we do this and EOS just as much as we do this a new business development, if you can change that look, to be on the positive positivity, which is a whole new thing. And that's really interesting. So that you like think about you made 49 saves, like that's the enormous. That

Jay Berkowitz: 00:27:33

was awesome. Yeah. That's me wanting more. So let's, let's jump into us. So we touched on it briefly. It's the Entrepreneurial Operating System. We really quickly our story, you know, I mentioned I read traction, Everyone kept saying how great ADOS is, you know, hopefully, y'all are hearing about it. And if you haven't jumped in, by the way, we did an entire webinar. So you can go to our YouTube channel, and watch a webinar with some really amazing EOS experts, including Mike Morse, who's has a 200 million plus law firm in Detroit. And, you know, Whitman, who's the founder and creator and author of these EOS books. So he's running a law firm and gives as matter of fact, he just did a LinkedIn Post this week, and he gave a ton of credit to Gino Whitman and to his integrator. So and genal explain what an integrator is. So Geno's is implementer. And he has an in house integrator. And Gerardo escalada, who's our, our EOS implementer. So that's an amazing webinar on EOS for law firms. If you really if this is, the next part is Conversations interesting to you. And you think, hey, I want to check out EOS you're either going to read what the heck is EOS Get a grip or traction. And then and then watch the watch the webinar video. So Dr. Chang, tell us about us for law firms, and you're super passionate about it. You said you just wish every law firm should be running out

Jay Berkowitz: 00:29:02

Dr. Jean Oursler: of us. Every law firm should run on EOS. I just came from Pro advisor meeting. And there was a lawyer and he said to me, we run on EOS. And I was like that's awesome. He said it was within within an hour the best decision top three best decisions I've ever made for my law firm. And they've been running on it for four years. And what's so fascinating is is that I think lawyers really think in silos in many ways. You know, like I work here and I work here. And we're a bunch of partners who kind of cobbled together this law firm with a lot of names on it. And let's see what happens. And the fact is that you're running a company that I was that I was at a lawyer networking event. And at the end the lawyers all said the next time all of you would you please bring a business owner and I thought you are business owners. Like everyone in this room is a managing partner of their law firm and they run a business. And I will tell you that when you The most successful lawyers that I've seen are the ones that realize that they're running a business in the area of law. And most lawyers don't think that way. And most lawyers have never gone to school to learn how to be an entrepreneur, but all of them are like, I hated working in the big, firm. I was giving them so many business hours, and I decided on my own company, great. I'm glad you started open up your own firm. That's awesome. What do you do in a run a better firm? How do you learn how to do that? And what's so great about EOS and Jay runs on Eos, too. So you can talk about this all day long, is that EOS gives you this framework really super easy that you learn in two years, and then the person goes, Oh, goodbye. And you run an amazing law firm, to that is going to kick butt over every other law firm. And it doesn't matter if you're small, medium, or large. EOS works everywhere. And I love the fact that Gino worked with Mike, because the fact is, is I think law firms are terrific. And they can run so much better. And I've seen the results. And if in one of your fellow lawyers are saying it's a top three decisions, it's in the top three decisions that he made for his firm. Come on now.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:31:09

Well, let me reinforce that. If you've got a room, and there's a great room that I speak at every every year, by room, I mean, it's mastermind it's a it's a annual meeting with some of the top personal injury firms in the country. Invite Only. And in this room, if you ask for a raise of hands and you say, Okay, who's running on Eos, nine of the top 10 firms by revenue by good guys, by all performance metrics, nine of the top 10 are running on EOS success leaves clues now that's a Tony Robbins for sure. Right? Yeah, to Tony Robbins. And, you know, guess guess what? I mean, I'm in a mastermind. It's much like the lawyer mastermind, but it's only for digital marketing agencies. And we have a top tier called the Titan that I was invited to join. And oh, and guess what? 19 of the 20 or 18 of the 20. Titans run on EOS. So success leaves clues. And that's why Dr. Jean and I are so bullish about it. And it's faster before I said, What? And you answer this question, hopefully you give me the same answer. What's the single best reason for running us for you?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:32:21

Dr. Jean Oursler: Oh, I did answer that really well didn't lie they haven't learned about me is that I only answer really well, once.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:32:26

I'm gonna give you my answer, then you're gonna give me your answer. So I really I wrote this down. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna show you like

Jay Berkowitz: 00:32:32

Dr. Jean Oursler: this, that he wrote it down. That's even better? Well, no, I

Joe Ruotolo: 00:32:35

didn't write your answer down. No, he

Joe Ruotolo: 00:32:37

Dr. Jean Oursler: wrote his answer down. I know my answer. He's gonna show you this. And I didn't write mine down is,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:32:42

you know, us is an operating system. So this whole massive book. So our implementer, at the end of the meeting asked us, he said, you know, what was the best part of the meeting for you. And I said that, you know, the visionary. And I'm the visionary of the firm, which means like, I'm the guy who's building relationships and going down, isn't coming back with million ideas. There's an actual partner greater in the firm, to make things happen. And the visionary generally gets in the way of that. So, you know, what I learned is that the visionary needs to be out of the weeds to have time to be a visionary. And the most powerful thing for me about EOS is that my leadership team has now taken responsibility and accountability. So I used to think I had to be the person who was the manager, and I had to get everyone to do things. But now that we have the OS, we have this accountability chart. Our leadership team now takes that leadership and accountability upon themselves. So that frees me up to do the things that I should be doing my super skills, or whatever you call them, speaking at conferences, networking, building relationships, creating content, creating webinars and podcasts. And that's where Jay lives in his sweet spot. So my answer is that everybody's taking accountability to allow me to be who I need to be. What's the best part of us for Dr. Jean?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:34:10

Dr. Jean Oursler: Yeah, I wanted to say this, because I have to, if you have an executive committee in your law firm, then you need to run on Eos, because you already have a leadership team. And a lot of lawyers are like, Wait, what if you have three partners, two partners, five partners, by yourself, all of you can run on EOS. And the reason why I'm so passionate about EOS is that we put EOS into our caveman brain. And on our sales coaching, we don't new business development, coaching and training. And I am I can play integrator and I can play visionary, which is great as an entrepreneur, but you got to pick one. And the visionary is the person who goes out and builds all the relationships with the integrators, the one that is the glue that holds the team together to get everything done. And my integrator actually I come in, I drop in I say all the great things that I need to do and then I get to leave If, and my integrator runs company, and I have way more time and freedom to do other things like build the EOS side of our company, and you'll find that I have this manager where I love him so much this Managing Partner, he said to me, I was so skeptical about EOS. But now I get to go out and do so many more things for the firm, while the partners are running the business, and I have an integrator to keep them all in the right line of where they need to go. And he doesn't never all the lawyers know exactly what they're supposed to do. And we have, it's, it cascades back and forth. And it's not every man for themselves.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:35:34

So I always love to speak in, you know, give, give the basics gives the medium tip and give the advanced tip and we kind of covered the bases basics of Eos like, you know, read what the heck is EOS are getting retraction. But and by the way, if you if you are that integrator type of person, if you're the chief operating officer, the Director of Operations, the glue person, the person who gets stuff done back at the firm while while your partner's out running around, you know, golfing and generating clients. Then retraction like if you're the integrator person retraction, but what's the advanced tip like, you know, maybe you're year and a half in with some firms, you've been coaching on Eos, what gets people to the next level with this program?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:36:19

Dr. Jean Oursler: Well, first of all, you have to stick with it. So that's the news.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:36:23

Come on, I want them

Jay Berkowitz: 00:36:24

Dr. Jean Oursler: to know, but the fact is, is that, um, we're talking about law firms here, right. So sticking with it. You know, I'm thinking about my most successful law firm on EOS. And the reality is, is that they're in the right seats, doing the right job, getting 100% completion on their rocks. So they're setting really good rocks. And they're holding people accountable. And they're communicating to everybody. So everybody knows they have a town hall meeting. They have, they're all running on their l 10. meetings. So everybody in the organization has a measurable everybody in the organization is running on the system, successfully, everyone's doing an L 10. Meeting. Everyone has metrics in the organization. And they're amazed by how easy it is, and how much better their law firm is, because they have this framework that's guiding them to make more money, more time, and better clients. Who wouldn't want all that?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:37:22

It's actually we were taught, we went for dinner after our session last night. And our integrator said, you know, the amazing thing about EOS is how much better our meetings. If you're, you know, if you're not on us, you probably recognize this, that meetings are scattered. Nobody follows the agenda. You get sidetracked all the time, nobody follows up on the things that were supposed to be followed up on. And the beauty of these, what are called L 10. Meetings is Well, number one, there's a great agenda. Number two, you follow it, you get a ton completed. And number three, there's a thing called issues. And you identify your top issues, and you solve three issues in every meeting. And it's amazing how many major issues we've now solved and made significant dramatic improvements in our company due to this system, right? Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:38:16

Dr. Jean Oursler: I have one other thing I would say. So I had another Managing Partner he was he sits around around table with other managing partners. And he wants all of them to run on EOS. And they said, What's the number one thing that's changed? And he said, you know that long to do lists that you have all the things that you want to do but never get to? And they all go Yeah, he said I had that too. I don't have that anymore. A year and a half in all done. Everything's completed. And we all went, wait, what? And he goes, yep, all done. That whole list. Not even happening anymore. I'm doing more stuff that's more futuristic. That's better. And that to me, if you've got a long list of stuff that you can never get to, then EOS will clear that up. And you'll never have it again.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:38:56

This stuff's awesome. And so if you want to check out us, you're going to connect with Dr. Gina, she'll give you her contact info at the end. In just a minute. We're going to wrap up with what I call my short snappers. And a couple of quick questions that give us quick answers, please. What are some apps or techniques to use for personal productivity?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:39:17

Dr. Jean Oursler: Otter I love otter otter is the best Oh my god.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:39:20

Ai note taking tool all night

Jay Berkowitz: 00:39:23

Dr. Jean Oursler: well, and I record everything and then I have a transcript and then I and I do it. Like when I'm watching a webinar that I'm learning from. I'll record the part and then it transcribes and then I can put it to my email and I can use that information wherever I want to. So I love using

Jay Berkowitz: 00:39:39

a similar program called Fathom AI, as Yeah. So the interview records, the video records, all the notes and it writes actually meeting notes and track you know, follow up and follow up on it. And it's fantastic, especially for all of our sales meetings, because then the team knows exactly what we promised to follow up with them, you know what we quoted, etc.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:01

Dr. Jean Oursler: Can I get one more and it's not necessary personnel but I use a personal and business it's called 90 io and 90 IO we run EOS on on but it also I run all my personal stuff on it IO. So it's actually a CRM system. It's a accountability system. It's a place that helps you with run EO EOS. It's not that expensive. And man, I have tried asana and all those other things. 90 io, it's just so intuitive, and it works really

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:26

well. And the idea was, is that a competitive bloom growth? It is,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:30

Dr. Jean Oursler: but I'm going to tell you right now, Bloom. I've seen clients run on bloom. Nine AU is so much better. Sorry, Bloom.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:40

No, that's great, because we just did the trial bloom growth and I think we we got to at least test drive nine Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:45

Dr. Jean Oursler: Yo, you gotta try that. You definitely have to test drive. And I do and make them super

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:49

quick, Best Books. Best business

Jay Berkowitz: 00:40:53

Dr. Jean Oursler: books. Oh, so I just read 10x is easier than 2x which is a Dan Sullivan book and yeah, yeah. And what's so fascinating is is that I'm not necessarily want to 10x My caveman brain because it's gross system because I liked it. Whereas this for the ideas of living in the 10x way is so much interest is so interesting. So how do you 10x business

Jay Berkowitz: 00:41:13

to rapidly pronounce all of it in one podcast, I No need to coach blogs, podcasts or YouTubes that you subscribe to. And as soon as they come in your feet, you've stopped whatever you're doing and you listen to them.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:41:27

Dr. Jean Oursler: So yeah, it's it's interesting to say that I actually it's it's Vanguards newsletter. I love the Vanguard's newsletter. It's called IVAF. And it's an the guy and the guy actually rips on Vanguard. But given that, it gives me all my financial information right there. And then and there's something also called Media Mark Scheffer is a marketing guru that I totally follow that I love. So

Jay Berkowitz: 00:41:53

chef Schaeffler Schaeffler. Yeah. Love him. I'll check that out. I'm not familiar and you're a tennis player, backhand or forehand backhand. That Lt.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:42:10

Dr. Jean Oursler: Dolphins baby. Oh,

Jay Berkowitz: 00:42:13

nice. Love it. Yeah. And this is easiest one where can people get in touch with you?

Jay Berkowitz: 00:42:17

Dr. Jean Oursler: So they can get a caveman? brain.com and then went right to me and Jean at caveman brain.com And there are 800 of us implementers across the nation. So if you email me, I will find you a person in your area. I tend to work and virtually as well as in New York and New Jersey, and Pennsylvania and Florida, and DC. So there's my areas but well we'll find your person. So you just Gina caveman brain.com

Jay Berkowitz: 00:42:41

love to talk to you Dr. Jean the results Queen thank you so much. This was awesome.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:42:45

Dr. Jean Oursler: Thank you Jay for having me. I am so excited. And I'm going to say this. Jay is going to be on my podcast getting results with Dr. Jean Results Queen so come listen to Jay because it's going to be terrific.

Joe Ruotolo: 00:42:54

Love it. Thanks so much.

Joe Ruotolo: 00:42:56

Dr. Jean Oursler: Thank you

IMFLF Intro: 00:43:00

Thank you for listening to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 Golden rules.com That is podcast at t e n Golden rules.com