and sometimes I've found that when somebody has no idea who you are or what's going on, once you kind of explain, they might have something that's so different from the group. Were so out of the box that you kind of just stop and look and you go, wow, that's brilliant. And I don't know if you would have said that to me if you actually knew me, you know, or if we had this relationship. So there's definitely pros and cons to both and both. Both different styles have worked for me.

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time you're listening to this podcast. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms. My name is Jay Berkowitz. And this is part two of a two part episode featuring the All Stars of the legal mastermind community. This is an audio recording from our live streaming webinar. And we've got some awesome experts. Craig Goldfarb. He runs the seven figure attorney Summit, Ken Hardison from filma built and sold to law firms, runs the Pillman masterminds and the filma conference I'll be speaking at in coming up this May. And finally, we've got someone who's is like a case study, Adam Rossen has built a huge agency. And he gives a ton of credit to his mastermind groups. Now, I just want to tell you very quickly about our live event coming up April 25, and 26th. It's called tgr live growth strategies for law firms. We have over a dozen of the top legal speakers in the world. We're going to cover topics like artificial intelligence, law, firm technology, culture, how to build millions of social media followers, and Instagram and YouTube views. It's going to be totally fun and interactive. Hope you can join us we got a great list of people, there's not a lot of spots left. As a matter of fact, I think the hotel is almost sold out. So go to 10 Golden rules.com For more information, and best of all, on Thursday night. So it's a two day conference April 25 and 26th. Thursday and Friday, Thursday night, we're gonna have a big party to celebrate 10 Golden Rules 20th anniversary, so go to tangled news.com For more information, we'd love to see you at the event. So without further ado, let's get into today's podcast. If you like the content from today, it doesn't matter which order you listen to to because we've got three speakers and a q&a section all about masterminds. But if you want to flip back to episode number 86. Now for part one, you could do that. Or you can listen to this part and go back to part one. It's all up to you. So without further ado, here's the power of legal masterminds. So I guess I met Ken Hardison when I first went to filma, and there's a couple of filma events, but the big one is coming up in May, and we'll be participating, I'll be speaking and we have a booth and it's a really fantastic multipronged educational event. Ken's known as the millionaire maker has over 30 years of legal experience and built and sold two of his own seven figure law firms as written best selling books like systematic marketing. And the film a live events offer cutting edge techniques, tons of marketing, there was tons of AI at the last one, some great AI presentations, some great presentations on running your law firm and motivating staff and keeping staff. And then tilma also offers masterminds at different levels. And I think that was a great point that Greg brought up that you know, the masterminds when you really want to be in a mastermind around your level and around your size. So Ken, do you want to run your slides? Or do you want me to share your slides,

So I wrote a book, and this text the book might not be working today. So I will put you can go to pill Mala. org and download it. That's PIO, MMA dot orgy. That's our website and download the book. If you want a written copy, if you want a hard bound, I'll mail it to you if you email info@filmer.org In the spirit, mm book mastermind book, and I wrote this book because I felt like there was a lot of confusion out there at one time, maybe not as much now. But when I wrote the book, there was a lot of people that were calling her stuff masterminds, when they weren't they were coaching courses, or something else. I mean, you know, and a true mastermind is what Craig describe what Jay described, and what I described, is getting a small group of people together that shares, you know, the good and the bad and the ugly, and it's there to help you. And there's been some great friendships created over the years. And I'm in two different wars myself, one with a bunch of entrepreneurs that like coaches, like the coach, dealers, you know, music teachers, chiropractors, all over the world dentist, and we get together twice, just twice a year. But anyway, I've been in them all my life. I think they helped me grow grow my law firms. I wasn't, I was when one with Dan Kennedy who is a marketing guru, some of you might know about him. Also Jay Abraham. I was in Wharton with him. And then I've got So I've just finished one with grazioso skates, the big term marketer jumped in and all my life, I really believe in it. Of course, I'm a continual learner. I mean, I tend to buy too much stuff probably sometimes, but I just know that the mastermind, probably more than anything else helped me. And I enjoy that facilitate and be honest with you. But, anyway,

yeah, Ken, that's awesome. And, you know, look, guys, it's no surprise, two very successful case study so far. And both of them stated their lifelong learners and gave us a ton of examples of courses they've bought, and Masterminds they've been in both are in multiple masterminds. And can can, I'm not surprised you're with Dan Kennedy, and Jay Abraham, I mean, those almost everybody who's super successful, either state Kennedy Abraham or Tony Robbins, or, and a couple of things that I took from your talk, you know, your masterminds meet three times a year, that's the same model that my my main masterminds currently and in the past, and made for two days, but again, very consistent, maybe flying on a day of dinner, and then made for two days, and maybe, you know, can fly out on day two, the Know your numbers. There's a great mastermind that I I speak at called MNL. that's run by Lee Coleman. And they have a great numbers group, as well. So what's your percentage, gross of your staff, your attorney compensation, your net profit. And so the focus on numbers has been super valuable for us in our group. And the the attorneys who are participate in that financial group say that's, that's really the most important for some of them, to contributing to their success, that you see where your numbers are at and where everybody else's numbers. And I think one of the things we haven't said is that most masterminds carry some sort of exclusivity for your market. So for most of the illegal ones that can I guess that's the case with your group that, you know, if somebody's from a certain state, or at least a DMA, there's nobody directly competing with them in the room. So everybody can share their numbers, and everybody shares openly and honestly, I love the piece about accountability. And one of the things our group does is, we all we all state our goals for the next four months. And if you achieve your goal, you commit to something you're going to do to celebrate and someone bought a plane, someone bought a pool for his family, someone bought a red Corvette, I took a VIP vacation with my family, when we hit the quarterly goal. And then we all state something we're going to do if we don't hit our quarterly goal, sometimes it's a donation to the political party, our opposing political party, but we all commit to those things, we come together at the end of the four months, and we we hold ourselves accountable to what we committed to. And then the last thing you said is, you know, some people don't take action. And that's, you know, we always hear it like, Oh, these masterminds don't work or that, of course, doesn't work. But these are always the people who don't take action. Can what's one of the things you've learned about the guys who do take action? How do they do that? Like, how do they make it happen?

Yeah, you know, is focused on discipline. I mean, here, you ain't got to be the smartest guy in the room. But, you know, I created this thing, and I teach it. It's kind of like pouring EOS. But it's a skeleton, sort of our coach, which is usually for guys, dude over to me and but, but the deal is quarterly planning, easily pick two or three projects, they call them rocks in the US. And I tell my group, they ever pick over three projects, but then fill out a paper that says, what, who and when for every task for that project, and then give somebody ownership of that project and hold them accountable. You don't mean that you got to be accountable, you at least got to make somebody else accountable, but hold them accountable and then get them to hold everybody else tell about accountability, and then set that what you want to do. And then you know, kind of lay it out like building a house, right? You got to build a floor, put the stairs up, you got put the healer, the healer, then you put the sheet rocker beat up the atrium. But I think that's what it comes down to focus and discipline. And I think another thing is grit. We had a guy kept talking about Viet one time, that didn't write the book, but we'll fly like the other study or whatever. And they've done studies on this. The smartest people are like the most successful people. It's the people that don't give up, persevere and get shit. Just to be honest with you. I never was the sharpest pistol in the room, but I had great grit. And I just never looked at something like that. We can't do this math figures. How can we get around this or this earlier this year? I never would give up.

I love it. That's very well said. Well, thank you so much and great as always. And without further ado, I'm going to pull up. Adam slides. And, again, Adam, thanks for jumping in for Ben and, and also we were looking as concurrently we're looking for someone who is a success story and doesn't run a mastermind. So Adams had a real tremendous growth he shared with me over the last five or six years, when he started in the masterminds. He's the CEO and founder Rossen Law, leader in law firm management and marketing at the firm. They've had tremendous growth, as I said, over the last five or six years, he has a deep belief in the efficacy of masterminds. And he's also the visionary of his firm. And they're also running EOS for the last three or four years.

we've definitely will take a few questions. I just as you know, I always like to sum up each section. So, you know, I love the fact that you've got such great core values in your us. I'm gonna come back to that in a minute. Oh, yeah. And the continuity of the masterminds? You know, I've like seems like all of us have been in and out of a few masterminds. But when you stay with three, four or five years, and really build that rapport with people, then they really, they hold you accountable. They hold you on your on what you commit yourself to. And like Ken said, and you said, you know, you don't show up in four months without having done what you committed to do. So it's part is really part of that success formula that comes with masterminds.

And Jay, I can tell you, we've had some people in some of the groups that I've been in where we sit there and we just kind of shake our heads and go, he or she is the same problem over and over again, we just want to shake them. But that's where you have the continuity involved. And you have the history to be able to say that and be direct and not worry about hurting somebody's feelings. Because ultimately we're all here to grow our businesses and, you know, it's okay to hurt somebody's feelings if it's to help them get better, I believe.

Yeah, for sure. And You know, and it sucks the energy out of the room and right, I'm sure those are some of the folks Ken has removed from his group. The last thing I love the fact that, you know, you propose to your group a pivot from criminal, which is your core competency to bankruptcy and they shut you down. I love that. So Ken's back. I'm not sure if we lost Craig entirely, or if he's just Craig, a few there. Oh, he's great. He's there. Awesome. Just turn this video off. I had a couple of questions that I thought were great for the whole group. And then we'll open it up. Y'all can just put your questions in chat. That'd be great. I think I covered this earlier with Ken. But is it consistent with everybody that there's exclusivity in the masterminds that you have exclusivity in your region or your practice area?

So I'll just jump in and say, for the pay as you go, ones that I've been a part of, there hasn't been exclusivity. And that to me is something that hurts that model. There is confidentiality, and those are always, you know, hammered home. But yeah, luckily, I've never been in one of those yet where I've had a direct competitor, but I could tell you, I I wouldn't be happy with it. Now all the other ones where I've joined and paid for the entire year. There's exclusivity, and that's a big draw for me.

But we also get everybody to sign a nondisclosure agreement. They learn in there and, and they think I'm the only one this might be I'm not. But I gotta do what I tell them to come to the first meeting and they don't think it's a good fit. I give them a complete reefer that I don't know anybody. But I do that, because why would I want your money? If? I don't know, I don't I don't do any contracts or anything? You know, I don't make them commit for a year. I don't want you in there. If you don't want to be in there, I guess is what I'm saying. I mean,

yeah, I, I agree with the exclusivity, we had, um, one of my current masterminds, we had two lawyers from New York. And then as I said, we have a veto power. So the the existing member from New York, got to veto another lawyer from New York. So I think the exclusivity is very important, as Ken said, and we also do give the the show up at the first meeting, not a fit, you can have your money back, because we agree with Ken, that it might not just be a fit with the group. And that's okay. And I'm interviewing someone I'm betting a law firm. Today for one of our Justice League masterminds. And I have a series of questions I asked him, and it's funny, Ken mentioned, we also have the no Asshole Rule. So to find a lawyer that said, a high level that is not full of themselves, is somewhat of a rare animal. And, you know, success is not always necessarily with humility. And especially in our profession, and in masterminds that I find most rewarding. The leader is not a vacuum, suck of energy. The leader is open and likes to step back and let the others shine. And the leaders of facilitator and also the guys who talk too much are the guys who tend to fade out. Because I'm there to listen. And they're to give some advice when needed. But I'm not there to impress others, though I love Ken's no Asshole Rule. And we have the same rule.

You know, get a facilitator, you want to get cool stuff out of people that are kind of introverted, and you want to calm down, quiet down to people that will appear to still talk about it. I've had I had a kick out really big law firm. And I will say, but the deal was they talk to each other all the time. And they didn't know how to whisper. I can't tell him so but the second meeting, I said, if this don't come back, I said I was gonna be a full River. Is it worth it? I told you last meeting, I've told you the beginning of this meeting, said you're distracted. Everybody that came here goes all he could do is hear your loud whispers because they're not whispers in a way, you know, you got to

I don't know, I just gotta be a good teammate. Right? It's like it's on many team. Yeah,

yeah, you gotta you know, either. Yeah, you got to play by the rules, or either don't you know, you kick kicked off the team.

We had a great resolution for that, you know, there's always someone in the room who sets up all the oxygen, but, you know, generally they're super successful. So you want to hear from them. So we instituted a rule. Everybody gets a chance to speak once, before anybody speaks twice. And that's a couple of things like, number one, it encourages the quiet person in the corner who's got a great idea for someone who would never get to the floor if the loud must keep chirping, right. And that person is then encouraged before the lab gets to speak twice that that person gets to contribute, but it also encourages you to hold your Last thought, and sometimes, you know, let a couple people go and make sure. You know, if you had two ideas, one of them, somebody else might say, and then you might save some of your best content. I want to jump in for just one sec. Because my team reminded me, I forgot to share our event. And you all share your events. We have an event coming up April 25, and 26th called tgr live. And you can find that link on our homepage. We've got awesome content around artificial intelligence, Justin lovely, who spoke at filma. Dr. Kane, Elliot is going to talk about artificial intelligence, how you can really use it in your firm, Jason Melton, who many of you know is going to talk about social media, we've got one other social media expert in the room. Nobody's seen John McCarthy. He's from England. He's the law firm profit coach. So nobody's seen him in North America. And we're going to cover niche practice areas with Dave Thomas, and technology on the final day, so that you can just find that 10 golden rules. That's our tgr live growth strategies for law firms event. So anyone wants to take questions in the chat? That'd be awesome. I had one more I wanted to ask you all, because a lot of us are in multiple masterminds. And I see a lot of people who go to like every event. And I know they're not doing much lawyering or much working. If you see him, like at every single event. What do you guys think is enough masterminds and, and seminars to attend? And how much is too many?

Like you can get, you know, overloaded? Certainly, if especially if you have problems implementing or if your staff cannot implement? I think one or two masterminds is the max that I would do personally. And they each have a different role. I'm not currently in a coaching program. And I attend three or four seminars. But I think as Adam was alluding to your different stages of life, to find that I'm an empty nester, I would assume Ken doesn't have any little babies at home. And Adam does have some little kids. So I think your your quality of life, your your commitment to work life balance, and how much you work defines that. And also, you know, you, you know, there's a guy Seth Price, who runs a law firm in Washington, DC, and also runs an internet company that guides that every seminar in the United States. And all he does is travel. Well, that's because he has a company's pitching, as well. And he's also a master at delegating. And he's really a CEO of both companies. So that's a guy who doesn't get sick of traveling all year. So I mean, everybody knows that price is everywhere. He's everywhere, right? I mean, every seminar you go to, so obviously, that works for him. And it works for his family. And he takes enough vacations with his two boys. So it must work for him. So it's really a personal decision. But I think you can overload on this stuff, because it's up to the amount you can implement, I guess, Adams a good person to ask that question as well. Yeah,

I want to thank you so much for doing this, but why don't you give her one you know, like, particularly for someone who's never joined a mastermind on the edge thinking about it. Just give him one thought each. Let's go in the order Craig, go first.

You something

Ken. One thought

Oh, you will return well, you got to lose. I mean, yes, well look good. And Adam,

it's an investment

in your future. Not a cost. Well, guys, thank

you so much for doing this. Ben, thank you for agreeing to do it. And we'll get you on. We'll do we'll do this again. Probably next year. Everyone who's watching on YouTube, sometime in the future, please give us a subscribe and a thumbs up because you guys did an awesome job today, guys. Thanks so much. Have a great day and really appreciate you. Thank you all. Thanks, Jay. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you for listening to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 Golden rules.com. That is podcast at t e n Golden rules.com.